To put it bluntly, this was quite the conversation. I’ve found Jack Donovan’s work to be both challenging, compelling, and ultimately fascinating—and it’s not for the faint of heart. So naturally, I wanted him on the show. Listen in as Jack and I dig into what men of today are facing, modern culture’s perspective on masculinity, balancing responsibility and freedom, the role of fathers, and of course, what really are the core tactical and mythic components of “masculinity” as a concept. 

Jack Donovan has been writing and speaking about masculinity, masculine philosophy and spirituality for over a decade. His foundational book, The Way of Men, has sold over 100,000 copies worldwide and has been translated into French, German, Portuguese, Spanish, and Polish. His most recent book, Fire in the Dark, presents a primal system of masculine roles and shows how those roles have been repeated again and again throughout the history of myth and religion.

Donovan is an occasional speaker and often appears on podcasts to discuss masculinity and the challenges faced by men who want to live masculine lives in the 21st Century.

In 2021, he founded CHEST Magazine with Tanner Guzy to create an alternative to mainstream men’s magazines. CHEST features interviews with courageous and important American men who are speaking up for men and standing against the forces of chaos and darkness that threaten freedom.

Connect with Jack





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